As women in our fifties, we’ve had a LOT of experience with relationships. Current (and former) spouses, friends old and new, how to make new ones, how to keep old ones, and when to cut ‘em loose and let ‘em go. It all boils down to the big three: trust, acceptance, and communication, as WE define those term. So, grab your go-to cocktail or experiment with something sassy! When it comes to the people we love, we’re all in on being all in.
Cheryl’s go-to Vodka/Cranberry
· 1 shot Raspberry Vodka
· 1 shot Reyka Vodka
· 2 shots water
· Splash of Cranberry juice
Add Ice and drink up.
Stasha’s Favorite Amaretto Sour
· 1.5 oz amaretto (DiSaronno or other nice brand)
· 1 oz bourbon (usually Maker’s Mark but sometimes Woodford)
· ½ oz simple syrup
· ¾ oz fresh squeezed lemon juice (this is no time for bottled)
· Slice of orange
Combine amaretto, bourbon, simple syrup, and lemon juice in an ice filled shaker.
Shake well.
Pour over ice.
Garnish with slice of orange and, if you have it, maraschino cherry.
NOTE: many recipes for Amaretto Sour call for egg white. I don’t care for egg white in my amoretto sour, so I skip it. If you like it, add ½ oz egg white before you shake. Be sure to shake VERY well.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People
Hold Me Tight: Your Guide to the Most Successful Approach to Building Loving Relationships
As women in our fifties, we’ve had a LOT of experience with relationships. Current (and former) spouses, friends old and new, how to make new ones, how to keep old ones, and when to cut ‘em loose and let ‘em go. It all boils down to the big three: trust, acceptance, and communication, as WE define those term. So, grab your go-to cocktail or experiment with something sassy! When it comes to the people we love, we’re all in on being all in.
Cheryl’s go-to Vodka/Cranberry
· 1 shot Raspberry Vodka
· 1 shot Reyka Vodka
· 2 shots water
· Splash of Cranberry juice
Add Ice and drink up.
Stasha’s Favorite Amaretto Sour
· 1.5 oz amaretto (DiSaronno or other nice brand)
· 1 oz bourbon (usually Maker’s Mark but sometimes Woodford)
· ½ oz simple syrup
· ¾ oz fresh squeezed lemon juice (this is no time for bottled)
· Slice of orange
Combine amaretto, bourbon, simple syrup, and lemon juice in an ice filled shaker.
Shake well.
Pour over ice.
Garnish with slice of orange and, if you have it, maraschino cherry.
NOTE: many recipes for Amaretto Sour call for egg white. I don’t care for egg white in my amoretto sour, so I skip it. If you like it, add ½ oz egg white before you shake. Be sure to shake VERY well.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People
Hold Me Tight: Your Guide to the Most Successful Approach to Building Loving Relationships
Stasha: Hi there. I'm Stasha.
Cheryl: I'm Cheryl.
Stasha: And between us.
Cheryl: We have four kids.
Stasha: Three businesses.
Cheryl: Two husbands, and one goal.
Stasha: To get to the point of the matter.
Cheryl: Communication. That's our big issue. And I think all couples as you've been together through the years, as you grow and you change as a person, your relationship has to grow and change.
Stasha: There's the friends that, you know, if something horrible, you know, if you're just, on a rampage and killed somebody, there's the friends that would say, oh my God, they seem like such nice people. Then there's the friend that'll be like, you know, well, you know, we saw a few signs, then there's the friends. That'll be like, you know what, I'll be your alibi girl. Call me up. I will, I'll tell him you were with me. And then there's the girlfriend is like, bitch we’re gonna go bury the body.
All righty. And we are off and recording. Yay. So, hi Cheryl.
Cheryl: Hello lovely, lovely, Stasha. H ow's it going?
Stasha: It's going very well. It's been, a couple of shaky spots this week, but overall very, very well. We ended up going out to dinner with our neighbors the other night and it's one of those things. These neighbors are lovely people. We're so delighted to have gotten to know them. And we had been planning this trip for this nice night out at this really nice steakhouse that's in our town and we're going to do it pre-COVID, and we have been waiting this entire time. This is the first time we've ever really been able to kind of go out, you know, no masks, no, having enjoyed the dinner, being inside, hanging with those guys. I think we killed four bottles of wine between the four of us.
Cheryl: Oh, wow. Nice. That's a good evening.
Stasha: Yes. And you? Et tu? What was your week like?
Cheryl: So, we took a motorcycle trip last weekend and did it's called the Tail of the Dragon and it goes from North Carolina to Tennessee. It's 11 miles and it has 318 curves in it.
Stasha: Oh wow.
Cheryl: And so, it was a bucket list item for me. I wanted to make sure that I was ready to do that kind of technical ride and I felt really comfortable, and I actually kept up pretty well with every, all the other guys. And I was the only girl at that time of the day. I don't know if somebody came through later, but typically girls are riding behind the guys, which is fine too, but I just like having my own bike and doing my own thing and being in control, my whole thing, got to be in control.
Stasha: And it's funny because the reason I like to ride on the back is because for me, that's like the one time when I'm not, you can't reach me. I can't be called. You can't talk to me on the phone. Nobody can ask me a decision. Mike's upfront. He makes all the decisions; he decides where we’re going to go and I just sit back there and enjoy the world. So, I am a huge fan of being on the back.
Cheryl:: Yeah. Nice. Well, it was a really fun weekend and really pretty area, lots of curvy roads. So, it was a lot of fun.
Stasha: Awesome. So, beverage I've ever choice tonight, I'm doing my amaretto sour, which is my version of the amaretto sour and I've got the recipe, so it is my version because I make a few changes to what the traditional ones. I don't have egg white in mind. It's just straight up Amaretto, a little bit of bourbon, lemon juice and just the good stuff. And it's a really nice one. I started drinking this when I was in college. So it was kind of my, you know, oh, “I remember when I was so young and thought I was so sophisticated” drink.
Cheryl: All right. Well, I changed mine up a little bit. I made mine more summery, so I kept the same liquors in it, but I switched out cranberry juice for orange juice.
Stasha: So, nice. That is a nice summery flavor.
Cheryl: Change it up a little bit.
Stasha: And you can do that.
Cheryl: I can do that.
Stasha: Exactly. Which brings us kind of to our topic of the night. So, we are talking tonight about relationships, and this one, I think you had put a really good question in there into our notes. Mainly it's like, why are relationships so important for women in their 50s? And I don't know if we want to address that. I think we'll probably come back and address that question over and over again, because I think they're incredibly important. And I think that they can be a lot of fun at the same time. A lot of changes happen in your 50s and kind of could make things a little bit difficult and fraught. So, what are your thoughts on that?
Cheryl: Well, relationships in general. I think we, as humans are designed to be in close relationships with other people and have that connection. That connection is really, really important. And I, to go to your point about our age, well, pretty much any age for women, but especially our age. I think having that connection for me, at least with other females is really important. And you know, you tighten up your circle as you get older and you get rid of the bullshit outliers and the people that don't show up when they say they're going to show up, or you can't be yourself around them, you kind of get rid of all those people and you get your peeps around you that you really enjoy being with, and having fun with. And mainly for me, I want to be able to be myself. If you don't like somebody who cusses, then you're not going to like being around me. If you don't like somebody who drinks, then you're not going to like being around me.
Stasha: No shit. I mean, that's pretty true. That's pretty true. But it's weird because one of the things about me is that I had a very hard time with relationships with women. It is just very, very difficult. I've actually had to work at very hard. I've had to work at, you know, with spouses, especially. But no, with women in particular, because I do not have a high trust factor of, of women. I, you know, for the longest time, I'm like, you really just wanted to like put me into a deep circle of hell, make me have to go sit at the women's table. Or, you know, you have to peel off, I think we, the peel off, you know, you go into a dinner party or out with friends, and all of a sudden, it's like the guys are moving over here around the grill and the women are being peeled off over here into the kitchen.
And I'm like, oh my God, if I hear one more fucking story about what their kid does, I'm going to lose my damn mind. I can't stand it. Don't talk to me about your kids. Don't talk to you about your shopping. Please talk to me about something else. Don't talk to you about your spouse, unless you want my help and opinion. And that's the thing about relationships. Like I really had to learn to navigate them, the good ones and to create them for myself. So, actually I would say, let's start with that. Let's talk about like the girlfriends. Do you have good girlfriends now?
Cheryl: Yes. I'm going to tag back on something you said for the listeners, just FYI kind of advice kind of thing. If you're one of those women, because you have said you do not like women who get into a group and start bashing their husbands.
Stasha: Oh my God, no.
Cheryl: If you do that and you are talking about your husband in a bad way and oh, he does this, and he does that and blah, blah, blah. Well, oftentimes you will get a female who will go, oh, well I can be this or this for him. Let me go over there and insert myself in that relationship.
Stasha: You think that women, can get predatory?
Cheryl: Believe me. Absolutely. There are some women who are bitches.
Stasha: Oh my God.
Cheryl: You have never experienced that?
Stasha: Not that I'm aware of.
Cheryl: Okay. Well, I have. And it's, it's yeah.
Stasha: I'm kind of dumb when it comes to that kind of stuff. I really am, but, so, so tell me more about this. So, tell me about these women. Tell me who these people are? Who are these bitches?
Cheryl: I made the mistake when we lived in Georgia, and this was like in the middle part of our marriage. We were not in a good place with the town that we lived in. We didn't fit in. My dad had just passed away. We were trying to help out with his farm. So, we, Brian had just gotten out of the Navy. Neither one of us were happy. And I thought I had a female friend that I was talking to about just, and I wasn't bashing my husband, but you know, just going through the trials of being in that town and not fitting in and, you know, it's affecting our marriage. Well, that bitch, starting--
Stasha: Did not?
Cheryl: Yes, she did. She started contacting my husband and I found out about it, and found out about it and I immediately wanted to go over to her house and knock her the fuck out.
Stasha: Wow. Wow. Okay. Let me get some parameters.
Cheryl: The country came out in me, that night.
Stasha: So, this was not a friend who was, you would consider a mutual friend of both of you who thought I just want to kind of devil’s advocate that, give us a little bit to make sure I'm really narrowing in on this. This is not somebody who considered themselves a mutual friend of both of you and thought that she was going to like got to mediate or she wasn't doing that? She wasn't tried to be helpful. She wasn't trying to, she was actually trying to basically take advantage of a bad situation.
Cheryl: Yes, she was.
Stasha: Wow, holy cow. I met some bitches, girl, but I don't think I have any bitches like that in my life. I don't think I've ever had.
Cheryl: I cannot believe you've never come across this.
Stasha: But then again, I never had a lot of female friends. I avoided it for a lot of reasons.
Cheryl: I gravitate towards male friends too. I, you know, I, maybe my upbringing, I don't know. I was always around guys all the time and I'm kind of a tomboy. I would rather talk about motorcycles and, you know, boats and everything versus talking about shopping or anything.
Stasha: I'd rather talk about politics and business, but yeah. Oh my God. Oh see, here's the thing. So, I would, that is, comes back to like the thing we're talking about trust. It's like, I am really, I don't say that I'm gullible. That'd be, I have said that before. And if you ask Mike, I probably am gullible, but I have a habit of taking everything at face value. If somebody says something to me, I believe them. I always believe them.
Cheryl: I don't.
Stasha: I don't. I'm not suspicious. I'm not, you know, so, and whether it's a close friend or a spouse, whatever, if somebody says something to me, I will believe it. And sometimes like, for example, you know, we were talking with them about spouses, somebody will say, hey, you know, I'm going to my husband, I want him to do this thing, he won't do it, therefore I don't trust him. And I'm like, yeah, but what did he say he was going to do? I was like, well, he said he wanted to go fishing. And I'm like, and you said, don't go fishing. And they said, he's like, yeah, I told him not to go. I'm like, well, you told him not to go, or you told him you didn't want him to go? Those are two different phrases. And that's, I was like, oh, I told him I didn't want him to go. I wanted to do something else and like, yeah, but he said he wanted to go fishing.
So, he went. That's not a betrayal of you. That's bad communication. You guys weren't communicating. But when it comes in like a friendship, because I have friends that, you know, I would consider these people, they're mutual friends of both Mike and I. I have a conversation with them about, that's a friendship that he has a separate, and these are women. Some of them were single. Some of them were married when we met them, got divorced, married again. I mean all of these different things. But I think the difference is, I don't think that there is a difference. I just think that the thing for me is that, you know, if Mike says to me, this is what that relationship is, I believe him because I trust him. But the friend, like you said, the woman, yeah,
Cheryl: I can trust my husband, but not trust the girl who's trying to hone in on my marriage. I'm, you haven't had to deal with that yet.
Stasha: I am stunned. I am truly stunned that I am this sheltered and block it.
Cheryl: I am truly stunned too.
Stasha: Well, I mean, there have been girls that flirt with him. I think my superpower on that is that, you know, part of me doesn't care. I'm like, it's like, okay, flirt with him. You know, first of all, thank you for seeing what I see. Second of all, he's very funny, he's a very good flirt. Third if you can take him, dear God, you could have him. You know, and I used to joke about this. I said, it was like, you know, the woman does not walk the face of this earth, who can take my husband. And if she does, I've got to meet her, because she must be some, some bitch cause she must be amazing. I must, this person, I want to meet her. I want to see her.
Cheryl: Yeah, you've said that to me. And I really liked that phrase that you use about that. That's awesome.
Stasha: But I think the thing is though, that is more a testimony to Mike than to any other woman. And to our relationship and to our communication and our strength and our skill. So, it's a funny kind of phrase, but I think it's more, it still speaks more to my relationship with him than it does to any relationship between him and her or me and her. But let's go back to this whole thing about like the women like horning in and just doing, you know, negative shit. That is one of the things that I have a problem with, is when people and this happens to, happens a lot that I've noticed when I do go to a party or get together, at some point, a lot of women will do this, they'll and some men do it too, but they start just speaking generally, negative terms about their husband or men in general.
It's like, you know, “oh my God! Men are so incompetent, aren't they? How do they get anything done? My God, they can't even make their own doctor's appointments. Good lord they can't do this.” And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe your man is an incompetent asshole, mine is not. So, let's not do that. And if that person is also a friend of mine, you're running down another friend of mine, I have a hard time with that. Do you ever get that where somebody just like generally being negative about somebody that you like?
Cheryl: No, I don't really get that too much because I have a group of friends that we hang out a lot. We go out a lot, they come here to lake house a lot and we're just all kind of on the same space, meaning we're all in the same place in our relationships. So, we all trust each other with our spouses. So, it's one of the unique relationships that I have because I've never really had that relationship with other people around my husband, you know, because there's always something, it seems like with other women, there's always somebody that's giving my husband more attention than they should, or, you know, I don't know. It's just, I in general do not trust women. Bottom line.
Stasha: That's a problem for you because your husband is good looking and charming. So, you know, you've got a problem. That's, he's a good-looking guy and he's charming person, so challenging.
Cheryl: Well, and part of it for him that he needs to work on is shutting that shit down, without me having to do it. I'm like, “Cheryl, hey now, you wanna get in?” And I’m like “no, dude, you take care of it.”
Stasha: Yeah. I don't know. I have to say, I don't think that I would, for me and this again, this is just for me, and I certainly can't advise other people on this one. Because this is a really hard place I think, to get to, I don't know that I could ever ask Mike to tone it down, provided that I felt like I was getting my due as well. If I'm the recognized queen, if I'm the person that's like, you know, it's plain as day to everybody in the world that, you know, I'm number one and everybody else is an also ran then I'm cool, I'm fine. But if I'm feeling neglected. If I'm feeling dismissed, if I'm feeling, you know, in any way, you know, insecure or something, then yeah, those things bother me. And because again, I don't think any woman, especially, you know, we've talked about this before, you know, I've got body image issues, all sorts of stuff, you know, and a lot of my friends are gorgeous.
I mean, these are people who have been actresses and actors for years. They're, like I said before, they're fitness people, they're amazing. And so, I mean, you get a little bit of that. I think that one of the things, you know, Mike and I really, and this is probably about 10, a little over 10 years ago. And like you said about that, that point in a relationship where you're like, yeah, 15 years in 16 years in or something. And you're like, okay, some things are, things are starting to get on my nerves a little bit. We're starting to have a little bit about; we're not quite seeing things the same. And I would say over a two to three-year time, we focused a lot, both on ourselves and each other.
But what we did the most, I don't know if it was an accidental or if we planned it or if it was just the people we were hanging out with at that time, we just were able to give a good advice. It was communication. They're like, you have to learn to communicate, and you've got to be able to, I see this happen with a lot of people, even friends that I have, you know, my age right now, they get mad at their spouse or their child or their parents or whatever, for something they haven't told them was bothering them. I'm like, okay. And when you told them this was a problem, what did they say? Oh, well, they should just know. They've known me for 15 years. I'm like, and in that 15 years, did they develop telepathy? Do they have a crystal fucking ball?
I mean, how are they supposed to know what's going on in your head? You've changed, you know, they can't know everything that you're thinking. So, we, and I do the same thing with business too. Like, and I, and I think I learned this, you know, back when I was getting my master's and part of it is we call it, I call it, you know, being held hostage to expectations you have not set. This happens with workers, employer, employees, friends. It's like, somebody is disappointing you, and you don't, or you're unable to tell them why or how they can fix it. Or worse, you haven't set the expectation out on the front end.
You know, it was like, well, it should be obvious. Have you, do you have, have you seen that? Cause you guys have a business too, and you've got to deal with a lot of people. So when you're talking about like relationships with, you know, both people who are below you, because you're the owner, you know, people below you, as well as clients that you have to deal with, or vendors, what do you notice about those relationships? You see anything out of crossover and communication?
Cheryl: Our big issue because we do work together is I, you know, Brian's there day-to-day and he has to deal with day-to-day decisions. Okay. So, when do I come into those decisions? Well, when it involves employees or money, and if he forgets to involve me in a discussion or decision that involves employees or money, I get really upset because you know, we've talked about this. This is something that I need to be involved in as a partner, even though I'm not there every day, doesn't mean I shouldn't be involved in those decisions. So, we've had to work on communication. That's our big issue. And I think all couples as you've been together through the years as you grow and you change as a person, your relationship has to grow and change.
And for us communication was the big issue because we got to the point where it just got exhausting saying stuff, and you kind of shut down. So, the book that I put on the page, for our show notes is “Hold Me Tight.” Something that they talk about in that, that has helped us. Our therapist actually had us read that, is couples get into patterns. And there are certain patterns that you'll read the different couples, what they do. And you kind of have to identify with which pattern you guys as a couple get into. And then you have to work out of those patterns. So, it's like doing a dance. So, every time there's something that upsets you about your spouse and vice versa, you start to do that dance that you've always done.
And now you have to learn to dance a different dance, and you have to do that with somebody you supposedly know really well, but when it comes to changing how you move and react to each other. It's like you're dealing with a new person. We've really had to work on communication. That's been our big issue. So, our therapist told us, try not to wait to say something, go ahead and say something then try to take the emotion out of it. You know?
So, if you need to go outside and run a couple laps before you come back in, so you don't throat punch him, but that's what I do. And then I say with my supposedly calm self, “you know, we agreed that we needed to talk, you needed to include me in, on discussions that involved employees and finances. This particular topic hit both of those buttons. So, what happened with that?” And then I have to be quiet and let him answer, which is awfully hard for me.
Stasha: You do not. Do you ever, are you ever quiet? Are you ever quiet? Because your face is running your mouth, whether you know it or not, everything in your head is on your face.
Cheryl: Exactly. And if he's taking too long to answer, I like answer for him. And she said, “Cheryl, you need to quit doing that. If it takes 20 minutes, you need to shut your face and let him talk.”
Stasha: Okay, let me try it. First of all, everybody listening, therapy, I, therapy is a great thing. Mike and I have had therapy. You know, it works really well. I've also like, I like to read and listen to podcasts and stuff, a lot different life coaches that I get great advice. I've always wanted to improve myself and get better. And I think I alluded to this something like last week, I said, you know, if something's working for you then by God, man, you keep doing that thing. But if something's not working, if suddenly there's an unhappiness in your marriage, there's an unhappiness in your friendships. If you're seeing the same unhappiness over and over and over again, or you're getting the same bad result, then, damn, you got to go do something.
And so, for me, that's, I think therapy and self-help books and self-improvement are a wonderful way to do that. But going back to what you said about, you know, you're having that conversation with somebody, especially a spouse. It's like, you know, you're supposed to know them, and I'm like, yes, but you don't know all of them. And I love that dance analogy. It's like, yes, it's a dance, but you are literally not dancing by yourself. The other person, especially, you know, anybody who has been, you know, a dancer, you know, you're two people in separate motion. You're connected, but you're not the same. You know? One of the things that we learned that I learned a long time ago, and I thought this was a really good one is about thoughts. Like you said, you have the, that same thing happened.
The trigger happens, and the next thing you know you're having the, we call it the one argument. You know, most couples have one argument and they have it from the time they're young until you know, they're in the old folks' home, you know, they're in the rocking chairs having the same fucking argument. And Mike and I have our one, and it's, it's basically, it's always a variation of this one thing, I mean we kind of always come back to it. And part of it is because each of us have our own deep grained, deep seated. In my case, I, it's, I've been told it's irrational fear and it's a fear that I feel that it's very rational and it has to do with we call a bag lady syndrome. I am absolutely terrified of everything suddenly that we've worked for and worked so hard of me, you know, growing old, losing him, and dying alone and destitute.
Because in my family, I've seen it over and over and over again. I've never known anybody to like, you know, leave this earth and my family with any kind of, you know, cash reserves. You know, we were all like passing the hat to close the casket. But I think that, so for me, I had this fear and when something happens, I will somehow, it doesn't matter what can be about. It might be over what we picked up for supper or something. It's somehow going to draw back into that argument somehow. And I've, my brain will go out of its way to draw it back to that.
Cheryl: Yes. That's the dance that you both get into. It's the same one. Yeah.
Stasha: And the thing that I remember hearing that I learned from this one person that I love so much, she's like, and this was also a life-changing realization once I finally embraced it, was that all of those thoughts are just thoughts. They not, might not be true. They're just the same in ground rut that your brain has, some point in your past. This became the thought that you associated with that thing.
And now, because your brain is trying to run on autopilot all the time, it tries to do the same thing over and over again, that you have to be the one to recognize like, okay, right now, I believe this thought that I'm having is absolutely true, but maybe it's not right. And that's a big one to deal with. I mean, especially with those like relationships with people, because people are always different, you know, that you think, you know them, and then they do something out of character. You're like, wait, what? How did that happen?
Cheryl: Or they show their true character.
Stasha: Talk to me more about that.
Cheryl: So, I love this person so much, but she tends to have people around her that don't treat people very kindly. And there's this one particular couple, they are horrible. They are horrible people. They are horrible to other people. And now we're going to be thrown together. And I'm not happy about that because I feel like, why are you hanging around these people who treat other people this way? So, the way I'm going to handle that is I'm going to say to this one, the female of the couple is the worst. I'm going to say, look, I don't like you. I don't like how you treat other people. So, you just need to stay away from me considering that we have to be in this same space.
Stasha: Are they coming to your house?
Cheryl: No.
Stasha: Okay. Thank God.
Cheryl: It's a group event that we're doing. And so we're going to be seeing these people a lot. And I just, it goes back to that assertiveness, that podcast that we did about assertiveness, that she is not willing to tell people that are unkind, and you shouldn't be around them, wouldn't want to be around them. She can't seem to distance herself from these kinds of people.
Stasha: And had she given any indication that she wants to distance from them or, and she can't, or that she likes that, or?
Cheryl: She has said, yeah, they do that. Yeah, they are like that. But, you know, and you're like, okay, just the things that you have listed about this person are things that you should not have in your life, and you shouldn't want to expose your friends around these people either.
Stasha: See, and here's what I do. And probably I've done something similar, is I would tell my friend just what you said. It's like, you know, here's, I know you're not asking for my advice on this, but I don't think these people are good for you, I think they treat you like shit. By the way, I'm not going to have people like that in my life. So, we're all going to be around together. And if we want to, either, you can let them know, or I can let them know, or someone's going to let them know that that shit ain't flying up in here. Because this is, and I think that's a big part of it. Actually, I've done this with my friends’ kids, I have done this with my friends’ family members. There was like one time when I have a girlfriend who I adore her madly. And her daughter was with her and she, her daughter could be very difficult at the time.
She's just very difficult person, but the way she would talk to her mother, the way she would talk, was just not cool. And one day they were over at the house and her daughter was with her and she always started like, you know, being just obnoxious to her mom. And I'm like, okay, we're going to have to stop because you're in my house right now, and this is my friend and you're not going to talk to her, my friend that way. We're not going to have it. You know, don't care, get mad if you want to, you know, or, you know, and my, and my friend. I don't always do her credit or to her, you know, just, just the way her parenting style is, she was like, okay. And that's what we're going to do. She's just a very low-key laid-back kind of person. But I've had other friends and this is like going back to our question on relationships. Where, when do you call it a day?
Cheryl: When do you call it a day?
Stasha: I have had friends that I'm like, this person is around you. I'm not going to be around that person. So, if they show up, I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to gather my ditties and go home. Now, if they're at my house, just so you know, don't bring them. Don't bring them. I don't want them around. And if you want me to tell you why, here's why, because I've heard them use the N word, they're racist. They have been rude to me. They have been rude to my friends. They treat, I watched them treat their girlfriend or their spouse horribly. And none of you all said anything to them about it. I'm like, we're not going to have that up in here. I've worked too hard. And maybe I'd go back to the whole thing about being 50, it's like I have, I don't know that there was ever a time when I would put up with that much shit.
Actually, I'm going to take that back. Yeah, there was, there was a time in my 20s when I was trying so desperately to be, you know, to be loved and accepted, that I put up with a lot of shit I shouldn't have. And when I find, and that's actually, when I found that book and I think I to that somewhere, "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People", I read that life-changing book, oh my God changed my life. Because it talks about basically this idea of going from being dependent, to independent, to interdependent. And dependent people, all their happiness, all the joy, all of their satisfaction is tied to other people. It's like, if somebody says something, oh my God, I'm sad. If somebody did something, I'm so angry. If something happened out in the world, oh my God, that's terrible. You know?
They're not, they have no independent thought that's not tied to somebody else as opposed to saying, okay, that person did this shitty thing. I can react to it these five ways, let me pick which one is best for me. Or this person is doing something. This is happening in the world that does, or doesn't affect me, I can go on with my business without it. That gets you to independence. And then interdependence is when you can make and keep promises to yourself and the people around you making keep promises to you. That goes back to what we were talking about. I think to me, the crux of good relationships are trust and acceptance.
And trust to me is not, I trust them to do what I want them to do. It’s I trust them to do what they said they would do. If I ask somebody to do something and either they don't do it, or they just do their own thing anyway, if they said that they said they were going to do something and then they did something else, I can't trust them. If I had an argument with them and I said, I want you to do this, and they said, no, I'm going to do this other thing. And they do that other thing, then I can trust them. I can then decide whether I like, and we'll put up with whatever that other thing is. But whether it's a friendship, whether it's a spouse, whether it's a parent or a family member, you know, that's yeah, talk about some relationships. Those are the ones that I could get challenged with.
Cheryl: Absolutely. And you and I have had a conversation about family members and, you know, when is it okay to say, I love you, but I don't want to talk about this particular topic anymore when we're together, whether it be politics or religion, or they don't like your spouse, it doesn't matter. Whatever the topic is, it is okay to say to a family member I'm not going to have that in my world. So, we can talk and be together and do all these wonderful things together, but we're not going to do this. And that's that limit and boundary that we need to have in relationships. So, you said trust and acceptance. And I would add to that communication, because it goes back to that. What you said about you cannot have expectations of someone in a relationship that you have not clearly laid out what your expectations are from yourself and what you want of your spouse in that relationship.
So, one of the things my husband and I didn't do well was communication. But when we got together, we immediately, I had my own child already, and then we immediately had children. And it all became about the kids. And we didn't really develop a good relationship with just he and I. And now that the kids are gone, that has now come out. It has come to roost because we no longer have the distraction of the kids, we still have the business, that's a distraction, but we have more time to see those failings that we had when we were young.
So, I would say to anybody, anybody listening, that even though you have kids or a business or a career, that's this overpowering thing you need to always come back to that relationship and have, like you said, trust for one thing and communication. Communication is so key to the foundation of a lot of things that and going back to assertiveness about communication. You might be uncomfortable saying, hey, it really hurt my feelings when you said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or I'm really upset with you because you did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's an uncomfortable conversation to have, but it's so important to be able to have.
Stasha: And that's it, I think you have to be, First of all, you have to make friends with some discomfort, you know, you've got to be able to be willing to feel discomfort.
And good discomfort. Good discomfort, I think is the kind that comes from trying to talk to somebody, trying to grow, trying to do something new, trying to learn something that's good discomfort. Bad discomfort to me is when you are trying to squelch yourself, you're trying to jam yourself down, you're trying to not say something, not do something to avoid making somebody else upset or whatever. And to me, that's what I mean by the acceptance part of it, is that if you can't, if you don't feel like you can like talk to this person and be accepted or you can't, don't feel like, you know, you can accept them when they talk to you. Because that's the other thing too, acceptance is a two-way street. You know, you've got to be able to accept who they are whoever they reveal themselves to be.
And because like, some examples, for example, you know, parents. You know, your parents are your parents, you know? And I think as a small child, you know, they are gods and goddesses. They are everything, having been the moon. And then you hit your teens and into your 20s and you're like, okay, I'm stepping away from this. I don't need any of this. I'm moving on. At some point you kind of come back together though. And especially when you like get married, have your own family, start having children have your own distant relationships, you start seeing your parents as an at least I hope you do. I think this is a growth thing, that you start seeing your parents as people.
Cheryl: Correct.
Stasha: And like, that's the thing with my mom. It's like, you know, I love my mom. I love her. But she is not warm, soft, and fuzzy. Buying her Mother’s Day card? Jesus fucking Christ. I sit there… and I pick them things up and I'm like, oh yeah, no. “Oh, she made so many sacrifices.” Yeah, no, I don't think so. “Oh, she did this! Oh, you're the heart of our home.” Oh my God.
Cheryl: You need a blank one inside.
Stasha: I had called the blank route. Now almost every day, I'll find something that does say, you know, “I am who I am because of you.” And that's the genuine thing for my mother, because that is absolutely true. I am her toughness. I am her smarts. I am her adventurousness. I mean, there are so many things about me that are absolute credits to who she is. But if I sat here and just got all pickle-pussed and pouty-faced every time my mother, I wanted her to do something sweet and she didn't, I'd be depressed all the time. So, that's the thing that I tell. It's like, whatever that, and even if it's your spouse, you know, if you want your spouse to be, like maybe someone feels like they look around, they see all these other husbands or whatever, and there's a husband over there and he's funny and he's good looking or whatever. And you look at your spouse and they're a hard worker and they're steady Eddie. And you're like, I wish you would be like him. It's like, but he's not. He's not him. He's who your person is.
Cheryl: And you can't expect somebody to be somebody that they are not.
Stasha: Right. And if you want to bring the funny, you bring your own funny. You be the funny. If you're not funny, well, there you go, you've got your answer. Surround yourself with, you know, hundreds of funny friends and let those be your funny. But don't make it be him, and don't be disappointed every day that he's not. That's something else too. It's like, as soon as you start to feel disappointment in your spouse, or in your children or in your whoever, it's like that, to me, that particular emotion is an absolute red flag is like, when you start, when you recognize disappointment, that's when you stop, and you get yourself right. And you either start talking to them, you start talking to yourself, you figure what out, what the problem is because disappointment turns into resentment. And resentment is the absolute, it's an emotional relationship cancer. You cannot be friends or in a good relationship with someone that you resent.
Cheryl: You are absolutely correct. How do you know when to leave a relationship?
Stasha: Well, let's start with ones that are like work, you know, let's start with the easy ones and move in. So, to me, it's like a work relationship. First of all, the question is, I've always been a very practical person. I was like, well, can you leave? Do you need the money? Is there something about it that you can't go? If you literally can't leave, then you've got to get your attitude right. It's up to you to change, not them. And then start looking for a different job, because again, you've got the disappointment and resentment building and it's going to build a, and sooner or later you're going to get fired. So, as soon as you recognize it, figure something out. But to me, it's like for me, the deal killers was with work relationships or always lack of respect and lack of honesty.
Now, I understand that there are some things within a work relationship you can't, you're not going to sit there, honestly tell you, I tell everybody everyone else's salary. You're not going to honestly tell them, okay, we're planning to actually lay people off six months from now. You can't be that kind of honest. But what you can do is rather than sitting there and telling your employees, you know, you want them to feel valued. You can actually value them and make that commitment. But as an employee, it's like, as if I was working for somebody, that would be my thing out the door. If I was being disrespected to my face. And I felt like I couldn't believe anything about them. With friends, to me, the time to go is when the acceptance either they have the trust and the acceptance again, trust they have lied to me repeatedly. They have said they were going to do something, and they didn't do it.
That becomes too much for me. It's like whether it's constantly being late, whether it is lying, like you said about something important, like with a relationship trying to deceive their way into a relationship, that's a violation of trust. Yes, I'm your good friend, but here I am over here making the moves on your husband. Violation of trust. They told you one thing and they did something else. Acceptance is if I will leave any relationship or either I find there, or I start judging. I kind of like, I don't say judging, isn't judgmental, but I've exercised my good judgment.
And I say, this relationship, this friendship is not good for me. I'm not getting anything out of it. I don't feel better when I'm around that person, I feel worse. They are, like I said, if they are just a negative person, if they're bringing me down, if I feel like there's, and if it's somebody that I'm really close to, then I might have a conversation and say, what's going on. There's been a change. Something I can help you with. But if not, I'll start to pull back.
Cheryl: And there's different levels to friendship, wouldn't you say? There was the, you know, I have my best friend that I talk to every single day, and I tell her all the time, I love you. And I, we would do anything for each other, and she always has my back and I always have her back. And then there's the casual relationships that you just get together here and there, maybe you can't always be yourself around them, but you know, it's fun to be around different people, and they're just casual friends. And then there's the friends that you have that will come to your home, that you allow into your home. So, it's a little bit, a step above casual friends, and those friends you want to hold to that acceptance, trust, and communication to where you can be yourself, they can be themselves. And everybody behaves in the way that they should that honors each other's relationships with each other and their spouses.
Stasha: Yeah, absolutely. I always look at it, you know, there's the friends that, you know, if something horrible, if, you know, if you just have one on a rampage and killed somebody, there's the friends that would say, oh my God, they seem like such nice people. Then there's the friends that would be like, you know, well, you know, we saw a few signs. Then there's the friend that be like, you know what, I'll be your alibi girl, call me up, I'll tell them you were with me. And then there's, the girlfriend is like, bitch, we're going to go bury the body. I mean, that's the level of friendship. That person who would just really have your back truly, no matter what.
Cheryl: And those are rare. Those are hard to find and rare.
Stasha: Yeah. And a lot of times too, I think the, and then we'll talk about this a minute, relationships change, people change. And who they were five years ago and who they are now, you might not still be compatible with them. But the calling it quits part of it with friends. Again, if you feel like you're not accepted, and I do like the thing you were saying, come into your own home. And I've always used the rule about that whoever's house you're in, that's who you defer to. Like we said before, I have people that have completely different political views than I have. When they're in my house, my rules rule, you know what I, what matters to me, they need to be the ones to watch what they say, I'm not watching what I say.
When I'm in their house, I watch what I say, at their house. You know, I'm there to be a guest. There'd be a host. You know, we're not going to, I would not want to make them uncomfortable as a guest in their house. They feel the same way about us. And to me, that's one of the things that bonds me with these groups of friends, they kind of recognize that. I have had people that have come to my house and had been rude. They've either been rude, not just on politics, but of something else. They've been rude to another guest. They've been rude to me. They've done something. I think only one time have I ever actually thrown someone out in the middle of a party, but I have not invited people back and they won't get invited back. And sometimes I'll tell their other friends say, no, those folks aren't coming back.
So, if we have an open party invitation, don't think you're bringing that person with them. Because they're not coming. And sadly, I've had, you know, I've had friends that I've lost close, close friends that just either grew apart or something happened that just felt so egregious, we couldn't overcome it. And those are the ones that hurt the most because you know, part of you wants to get past it, the other part of you is going, I'll never forget it. I'll never forget this thing that they did. I'll never forget. We actually had one friend, and what they did, I mean, it, to this day they wouldn't admit it, but they, they don't realize it. I didn't know what it is, they didn't admit it, realize it, or whatever. They almost financially ruined us. Well, like you, for our listeners who don't know my husband and I also own our own business. We also work together 24/7 couple have been for the past, nearly two decades. That's a hard thing to do.
Both relationship wise and just even business wise, it's hard for people to work for a married couple. It's hard for people to for clients sometimes to deal with a married couple. But, and when that one went away, when that went away, I mean, they were, he was kind of the one that kind of made the decision. No, we're not contacting them anymore. And we're like, fine, we're not doing this. To me to this day, they're part, there are parts of me that are, that always hurt about it, at the same time what happened was so great. I couldn't move, I couldn't ask Mike to move on. I couldn't ask me to move on. Like I said, I have one, you know, overriding fear and that's, you know, financial, you know, obliteration. It would always come back. So, you know, and that one it's like, okay, that relationship's gone away and I feel sad about it, but, okay.
Cheryl: I think it also depends on how a person reacts to you. If trust has been broken or they've done something egregious to you or somebody else that you love. When you go to that person and say, this is the thing that you did, and this is how that impacted me and our relationship, whatever that relationship is. I think it also depends on when to leave as to how they react to you. Are they truly sorry? Do they admit it, own it, and then want to move forward in a different way to help you get over whatever that was that happened? Or are they going to be the person who says, “I'm sorry, that you feel that way, and I'm going to move on, I'm going to do what I'm going to do.”
Stasha: That’s a slap a bitch phrase. That is a slab a bitch phrase. It is.
You know, it's not a true apology. And I think it's okay to move on from those relationships. If that relationship, any kind of relationship, marriage, romantic friendship, co-worker, if those relationships are not serving you in a healthy way, and you have communicated that, and it's not going to change or get better, get rid of that, get rid of that relationship. You do not need that in your life.
Stasha: No.
Stasha: And especially, I think, again, going back to that idea of relationships with people in their, in the 50s, women especially, is we have to maintain the habit of making new friends. As you get older, it's harder and harder to make new friends.
Cheryl: It is hard.
Stasha: And in part, because we all get more set in our ways, you know, partially. Also, because, you know, people are at this different phase than when we were younger. I mean, there was house parties and keg parties and, you know, all sorts, you know, things to get together, and you were, you were seeing folks all the time. As you get older, you know, life changes and you don't do that so much. And I really had to make a decision a number of years, I mean, this was like, hold on 2008 somewhere by, so maybe like 13 years ago, at one point, you know, we kind of woke up and went, “wow, we don't have a lot of friends.” We have a few friends, you know, that we see sometimes. But if anything happened to those like four people, we would be friendless. And I think what had happened was we had had an argument with one of them, there had been an argument kind of gone on.
And there were some other people that were on the periphery that we didn't really feel like we fit in with. We felt judged by them a lot. We felt like, you know, we would get, always a snarky comment from them, there'd always be some kind of like little cutting barber or something. You know? And they thought, oh, we're just being funny. You all are being too sensitive. And we're like, okay, that's not any fun. So, we actually went on a mission about around like 2008, 2009, probably got a full swing 2010 to just meet people. We would go out when we were traveling for business, we would quit eating in the dining room, would only eat at the bars so we could talk to people. And in some of those, some of the, we met people at bars, in towns, all over the country. And some of them were still friends to this day.
Some of them are on Facebook. You know, we just met them and said, okay, we like these people want to be friends with these people. When we started getting more involved in our town, you know, we have friends now, we can go downtown and see 15 people. Now, they might not be our closest of buddies, but there's certainly people we feel friendly with. And I witnessed this when I see people who are getting a lot older. And when they start getting into their 70s and their 80s, and they don't have any friends, and now their friends around them they did have were dying.
And you start, you don't have that great deep sense of community or belonging. And that is where I think people who are either very active in clubs, churches, family, whatever it is, cultivating and holding those friendships tight. I don't think you should let a friendship go, or family member, a true friend or family member go without working on it in some way. And if it can be solved, absolutely solve it. Even if sometimes that solution is, you know what? I love you from a distance. We're going to maintain our loving relationship, but I'm just not going to see you so much.
Cheryl: So, are you the type of person that, like, if you go to a bed and breakfast and you're going to stay for the weekend, are you the type of person who likes to go up and meet different people and talk to different people?
Stasha: Oh yes.
Cheryl: Oh, God, I'm so opposite. Leave me alone. I don't want to talk to anybody. I just want to be with my husband. I want to, you know, because we are around so many people in business and have to deal with business and people. And you know, often times you don't get a lot of quality time to yourselves. So, I like to just, you know, kind of check out and not, I don't want to be around other people. I don't want to talk to them.
Stasha: I'm going to call some bull shit! Because what you just said right there, you don't have time to like, you don't have quality time. You work together, you live together, you sleep together, you are together, together, together. It's like, of course you have the time, you're just not doing it.
Cheryl: No, we usually we don't, we work together, but we don't have, we're not on the same schedule. It's not like we see each other a lot during the week. He's gone out doing site visits, doing all of that stuff. I'm out doing my thing. And you know. So, it's not like we're together, together. And a lot of times now our kids will be around us, you know, for come, for the weekend. We've got kids here. We've got friends here.
Stasha: Let me quality, these kids are not children. These kids are adults. So.
Cheryl: These kids are adults. And then they bring their boyfriends or girlfriends or whatever it is. And then we have our friends that come. We don't actually have a lot of time where it's just he and I alone to sit down and have a conversation. So, you know, I don't like meeting other people and talking to other people.
Stasha: We’re really sensitive about it. I mean, I'm, pretty good. One of things that we are very good at is reading the room. It's like, you know, so we'll meet you. We'll say hi, hello. And if somebody is like, not, can you even tell it's like, they're being courteous, you know, hello, duh, duh, duh. But you can tell that's fine. You know, again, we're not there. We're not there because we have to make friends. We just like know people and actually Mike will laugh about this because I'm Up With People. As you know, I spent a year in 1985 traveling with, Up With People.
And for those of you don't know what that is, it is not a cult. But it's, they're very happy people. It's like, you know, and basically, it's not that they're happy it's that, it's a, you really develop a sense of curiosity, about cultures, about people, about whatever. And you develop these skills and being able to talk to folks. So, ever since ‘85, every five years, there's a reunion. And it's for all of the casts that traveled in those like every fifth year. So, 85, 90, 95, 81 96 or 86. So, you'll be at a hotel or a resort somewhere with 1500 other people just like me.
And Mike, of course, he's not quite just like me. He's a little bit more like you, more reticent, but you know, at these conventions, you know, we'll get on the elevator, and by the time we get from like, you know, the fifth floor to the ground floor, it's like, you'll have exchanged phone numbers. You'll have found out where they live. You'll know kids the names. It's just one of those things.
Cheryl: No. Don't talk to me. Don't look at me. I don't want to, no, I don't like that. I don't like hooking up with random people.
Stasha: Oh, I love it. I love it.
Cheryl: Oh my God. Let's button it up. Let's say that the key components that we feel like are in a healthy relationship, whatever that relationship is in your life, is trust and acceptance of who you are, that that person, or that group allows you to be who you are.
Stasha: And you are accepting of who they are.
Cheryl: You're accepting of who they are. You don't have to temper that. And communication.
Stasha: Yeah. And I think that the trust part of it, again, it's trusting them to be who they've revealed themselves to be, and to do what they said they were going to do, not to anticipate your own wants and needs. That's incredibly huge distinction that I think a lot of people really don't understand. Trust is not about trusting people to read your mind or to do what you want all the time. Same thing with communication, a lot of people say we need to communicate more, when what they mean is I want to hear yes from you more. I'm going to tell you what's bothering me and you're going to say, yes, I understand you, and I'm going to change automatically. Sometimes you say, this is what's bothering me. I want you to do this. And they say, no. No is an answer.
Cheryl: No is an answer. And you're either okay with it or you're not, that's your decision to make.
Stasha: Or you're committed to like saying, okay, it's going to be no, what can it be? Again that, learning how to cut to go from yes and no to some third way that does work for you, that you are okay with. And if you've tried all that and you feel like batted around and you have really wrestled with it, and you can't get to that third way, that's going to work, then it's the time to say--and then in the case of spouses--that you just can't get to the yes and you can't truly say I accept this thing, or I can ignore this thing without disappointment and resentment. That's when the time to me, it's like, if you’re going to call it a day, that's the time.
Cheryl: Yes. I agree. And you have a phrase with Mike that I truly love, and that I've kind of latched onto for our relationship, and we've used it often. You say “what is going to get us to the rocking chairs” And if, you know, if we're having a discussion or an argument or a problem, okay, what is going to get us to the rocking chairs? What can you live with? What can I live with? And what's going to get us there and how do we do that with each other respectfully?
Stasha: And to let the listeners know what that, what that's about, is like again, back when Mike and I were like coming up with this whole realizing that we needed to like work on our friends and our communication and our life and what we're dealing. We, at one point, you know, I wrote this letter, I wrote, I wrote this letter out, and then I basically identified this ideal life of that I wanted at the end of our days. And I envisioned us, and whatever our living arrangement is, but we're on a porch and we're both in rocking chairs and we're watching the sunset and we're holding hands. I want us to be that old couple sitting in the rocking chairs, holding hands. And that's--
Cheryl: And to respect each other too.
Stasha: Loving, again, the loving and the respect, all, and just looking back on our life and thinking about, you know, man, remember when we took to have the convertible and we're going down the Pacific coast highway, remember when we met that really great couple in Denver, and we just like, ended up like hanging out with them for a weekend. Remember the time that, you know, we happened to like, come across this crazy, like walk someplace. And we took this walk and almost got lost on the mountain. Everything becomes a look back to something that was either you learn from, or you enjoyed or whatever.
And, but that's how you get to the rocking chair. So, when we talk about us, like, you know, how does this get us to the rocking chair, it is about how do we make this moment something memorable that we want to remember, how do we make the next steps? You know, does one of us have to give something up? You know? Because, you know, compromise sometimes can mean, you know, both sides are unhappy. For us, what we do is like, you know, sometimes I get what I want and sometimes he gets what he wants. As long as that has some feeling of fairness to it, I'm good with that. I really hate like the compromises, like we're basically two people don't get what they want.
But that just sucks. It's like how awful. Learn to take turns. And then yeah, man, it's like that idea of, of acceptance. And I think I've mentioned this before too, that one of the greatest gifts you can give a friend is to let them be mad at you. If, because people can't be friends for a lifetime and not have sometimes your interests collide, or you do something that hurts another, it has to happen. And sometimes that happens and it's a justifiable hurt. It's like, you know, yeah, what I did hurt them. And either I meant to do it and I couldn't help it. I'm sorry about that. Or I didn't need to do it, I'm so sorry. But they still get to be mad. They still get to feel what they want to feel. They don't have to become instantly happy.
Cheryl: I messed up this week with one of my friends who is also a supervisor of mine in the GAL world. And she was resigning her position. And I guess during the conversation she told me, she didn't want me to tell anybody that, but I don't remember that. Because I remember her saying, but I and I've reached out to a couple of people that I think might be interested in the job. Well, I thought I'm going to do the same thing. I have somebody that I think would be interested in the job. I'm going to reach out to her, and let her know about this opening, there's going to be this opening. And I got her supervisors cell phone number so that she could call her supervisor.
Apparently, that was the wrong thing to do. Because everybody was mad at me at that point. “I can't believe you did this. I can't believe you told people that I was resigning before I wanted them to.” So, I felt really, really bad. And I was like, I honestly don't remember you saying to me not to say anything. I'm really sorry that I hurt you. I'm really sorry that I picked this before you wanted to. I literally only told one person, and then I contacted that person and I said, look, don't say anything, they don't want it out yet. You know? But she had already called the boss and he was mad at me. “Why'd you give that person my number, I gave that person, I gave that number to you.” I'm like, oh my God.
Stasha: Yeah. That is, it does suck, because we all screw up. We all screw up. You know? And the one, and I'll tell you this. The people that I have the hardest time with are the people who can't admit that they ever screw up. I mean, again, nobody likes to be wrong. I hate to be wrong. I absolutely hate it. But every once in a while, on rare occasions, I am wrong. And you know, Mike may have a different point of view on that one. I don't know. He might disagree a little bit. I don't know. Maybe my friends might have it. I don't know. They're not here. We're not talking to them right now. But no, it's true. I think that you have to own that you are going to hurt people and you have to own that, you know, you can be wrong. And then you have to also at times be self-aware enough to realize when you're not wrong and somebody is trying to put their wrong on you.
Cheryl: And sometimes It's not about you that they're upset. Even though they say they're upset with you about something.
Stasha: Relationships are complicated. We talked all the way around as we came back to relationships are complicated.
Cheryl: Yes. And I would also like to say, you spoke about this earlier, but if some, when you are around people consistently, they are going to show you who they are, by how they treat you by how they treat other people. All of this factors that we talked about, communication, trust, acceptance, believe who they show you that they are. And then you've got to decide, is it good? Or is it not good? And do I need to move on? And you need to quickly be okay with that and not try to change somebody.
Stasha: If you're feeling good around it, you feel that it's probably right thing. If it's, if you feel bad, it's like, if there's something about it, that either you feel upset, angry, whatever that negative emotion is, that negative emotion is bellwether. That's like a weathervane, telling you which way the wind is blowing.
Cheryl: It's a red flag. Yeah. And I think women too, one more thing is that we get these gut feelings about a situation or a person. And a lot of times we push that down because we got to be, are people pleasers. You know? We got to make sure everybody in the room is okay. Well, they didn't really mean to say it that way. Well, yes, they did.
Stasha: Yeah, they did.
Cheryl: They get to own that. And if that's something that you, even, if it's not a, I can't really figure out what it is about this person that I'm feeling, but I'm not feeling good about it. You need to honor that; you need to bring it to the surface. Talk about it with somebody that you trust and say, I know exactly why you're feeling that way. This person is an asshole, and this is why.
Stasha: And you don't want to name it. You just want to name them.
Cheryl: Want to name it for whatever reason. But that goes back to that, believing how somebody is treating you or other people and who they are, even if it's something you can't name and it's just one of those gut feelings. You need to honor that.
Stasha: And you also need to have at least one preferably more of the people in your life-- whether it's a friend, a family member, somebody--who will look at you when they hear this kind of story and say, okay, they're being an asshole. Or they're going to say, you're being an asshole. There's a person who can look at you and just say, and know who you are, know who you were, and have your best interest at heart and are there for you in a way that it can be uncomfortable. That can be awkward, but they're going to say it. They're going to say, man, this is what I'm observing do with what you want. But here's what I see. You asked me what I thought. Here's what I think.
Cheryl: That's what my best friend does for me. I love her so much because I'll say this is how I handled that situation, was I right? And she was like “you should not have approached that girl in that restaurant and told her you’re the bitch that took my parking spot.”
Stasha: The name of the podcast should be, by the way, Bitch Took My Parking Spot. That should be our name. Also, if we started doing merchandise that will be one of our t-shirts.
Cheryl: It needs to be.
Stasha: I think this is a really good one. I do hope that, I love relationships. I love friendships. I like cultivating them. I guess I've worked hard to get better at them. I still am that same awkward person that I have been so much of my life. I'm not cool. I'm not one of those people that just like, Hey, I can--
Cheryl: I totally disagree with you. You are totally cool. Yes, you are. Don't even say that.
Stasha: You're so sweet. You and Mike can debate that. Because Mike's like, yeah, no, no, that's not you. You're not cool.
Cheryl: Yeah, you are cool. Mike, shut your face. She is cool.
Stasha: Now, I'm going to have to say, I agree with Mike. We'll talk about that in another show. We'll talk about, we'll do like one of those, like what is, and what is it? Cool. We'll do that.
Cheryl: Okay. All right.
Stasha: Always fabulous. Always fabulous. Listeners, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for taking time and being with us. We love you. I'm going to have my last sip of my Amaretto Sour. That is refreshing.
Cheryl: Cheers to you. I love you. And I'll see you next week.
Cheryl: Love you too, girlfriend.
Stasha: Bye-bye.
Cheryl: Bye.